COMMENT ⊗   VALID 00005 PAGES
C REC  PAGE   DESCRIPTION
C00001 00001
C00002 00002	From	Bruce Anderson  (DBA @ SU-AI)
C00006 00003	from Bill Earl at UCI
C00008 00004	from Daryle Lewis at BBN
C00010 00005	from Jeff Jacobs at ???
C00015 ENDMK
C⊗;
From	Bruce Anderson  (DBA @ SU-AI)
To	Daryle Lewis and Bill Earl
About	The future of UCI Lisp
Date	6 November 1973

I would like to get some idea of the plans and prospects for UCILISP,
both because I am a user and because I am trying to get the Lisp
situation at Stanford sorted out.  So I would be very grateful if
you would answer these funny questions:

1 Usage
1.1 How many sites have UCILISP running?
1.2 At how many sites is it used extensively?
1.3 How many sites have sent you bug reports?
1.4 How many of these also sent fixes?
1.5 How many Tenex sites use it?

2 Maintenance
2.1 Who is responsible for maintaining the system?
2.2 Are bugs fixed because they are bugs or because they are bugs that
affect the maintainers and their friends?
2.3 Does someone of reasonable standing at UCI (or somewhere else) feel
some responsibility for continuing support of UCILISP?

3 Extensions
3.1 Are any further extensions/enhancements of the system planned?
3.2 Who decides what new features go into the system?

4 Prospects
4.1 Do you regard UCILISP as a competitor to INTERLISP or as a system
to be used by people who for one reason or another cannot use INTERLISP?
4.2 Is a Tenex version of UCILISP planned?

Please don't think of these queries as intended to be rude (2.2 looks
awful!) - I have been pretty pleased with the bug ratio and with
response to my questions!  At the moment Stanford has nobody whose job
it is to maintain any Lisp at all, and I want to propose that (a) we
get someone, and (b) the the standard system should be UCILISP.  The
main problem with the change (b) is that some work would have to be
done to get some of our funny Lisp-based systems transferred, and I
would like to be able to argue that this would be worthwhile in three
ways
1 UCILISP is better
2 UCILISP is more reliable
3 Because several sites are using it the maintenance of the common
parts is shared ie we (all) have to do less of this work each.
If you think the questions are dumb and would rather tell me what I
need to know in some other way, that is of course fine!

					Bruce

from Bill Earl at UCI

∂06-NOV-73  1613		1,JMJ 
 
 BRUCE:
 
 	I JUST GOT YOUR NOTE SENT TODAY.  I WILL TRY TO ANSWER YOUR 
 QUESTIONS IN ORDER, AS BEST I KNOW.  
 
 UCILISP IS CURRENTLY IN USE AT PERHAPS 10 SITES, ALTHOUGH
 I'M NOT SURE, SINCE I GATHER SOME PEOPLE HAVE PASSED IT ON
 TO OTHERS.  AMONG THE SITES WHICH SEEM TO USE IT (FROM WHAT
 I HAVE HEARD) ARE CMU-10A, SYRACUSE, AND MONTREAL(I FORGET 
 JUST WHICH PLACE THERE IT IS). ALSO, I BELIEVE EDINBURGH INTENDS
 TO USE IT (THEY SEEMED ANXIOUS TO GET A COPY IN 
 A HURRY).
 
 SO FAR  I HAVE RECEIVED BUG REPORTS ONLY FROM CMU (AND FROM
 YOU).  RYCHENER AT CMU ALSO SUGGESTED SOME FIXES.
 
 AS FAR AS IT KNOW, NO TENEX SITES USE IT.
 
 PRESENTLY, IT APPEARS THAT I WILL BE MAINTAINING THE SYSTEM FOR
 A WHILE.  JEFF JACOBS AND DARYLE LEWIS ARE BOTH INTERESTED IN
 THE SYSTEM, BUT BOTH ARE WORKING (OR WILL BE) ON OTHER THINGS,
 DARYLE AT BBN AND JEFF AT ISI, MOST LIKELY.  ALTHOUGH RUSTY
 BOBROW WILL BE LEAVING HERE AT THE END OF THE QUARTER, I
 BELIEVE HE IS ALSO INTERESTED IN THE CONTINUED SUPPORT OF
 UCILISP.  THERE ARE, HOWEVER, NO OTHER FACULTY MEMBERS HERE
 WHO ARE PARTICULARLY INTERESTED IN THE SYSTEM AS SYSTEM 
 PROGRAMMERS. CERTAINLY ANY OF US ARE PREPARED 

from Daryle Lewis at BBN

∂8-NOV-73  0025		network site BBN
 -------
 Date:  8-NOV-73 0327-EST
 From: LEWIS at BBN-TENEX
 Re:   UCI LISP
 - - - -
 I'M AFRAID THAT I CAN'T BE MUCH HELP IN ANSWERING YOU QUESTIONS.
 SINCE COMMING TO BBN, MY PARTICIPATION HAS BEEN LIMITED TO ANSERING GENERAL
 QUESTIONS AND ACTING AS A BACKUP FOR JEFF WHILE HE WAS GONE FOR
 THE SUMMER.
 
 I'M PASSING YOUR MESSAGE ON TO JEFF AND RUSTY, BUT I WOULDN'T FEEL
 TOO HOPEFUL ABOUT CONTINUING MAINTANCE.  BY JAN. 1 , ALL OF
 THE PEOPLE WHO DID THE MAJOR PART OF THE WORK ON UCI LISP WILL
 BE HERE AT BBN.  I THINK JEFF IS GOING TO WORK AT ISI.  I DON'T
 KNOW ABOUT BILL EARL (I HOPE YOU SENT A COPY OF THIS TO HIM,
 I DON'T EVEN KNOW HIS MAILBOX ADDRESS, IF HE HAS ONE) BUT I
 DOUBT THAT HE WILL BE IN A POSITION TO DO ANY REAL WORK
 ON THE SYSTEM, IRVINE IS MOVING AWAY FROM AI, AND WITHOUT
 SOMEONE THERE WHO REALLY KNOWS THE GUTS OF THE THING, I DON'T
 THINK HE WILL BE ABLE TO HACK IT.
 
 DARYLE
 -------
 
from Jeff Jacobs at ???

∂06-NOV-73  2224		1,JMJ
 BRUCE,
 WELL, I HAVE LEFT THE WILDS OF THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST FOR GOOD. I
 HAVE BEEN TALKING TO DARYLE LEWIS AT BBN AND LOOKED AT YOUR MESSAGE.
 IN RESPONSE TO YOUR QUESTIONS (WHERE I CAN ANSWER THEM):
 
 USAGE:
 1.CAN'T SAY AT THIS MOMENT. PROBABLY AT LEST 5 OR 6, WITH A LOT OF TAPES
 STILL IN THE DRAWER. PLUS IT HASN'T BEEN SENT TO DECUS YET.
 2. I IMAGINE CMU HAS USED IT EXTENSIVELY. OUTSIDE OF THAT, I CAN'T SAY ABOUT THE OTHERS.
 3. THE ONLY BUG REPORTS THAT I KNOW OF HAVE COME FROM YOU AND CMU.
 4. I HAVEN'T SEEN FIXES FROM ANYBODY.
 5. AS OF THIS MOMENT, I DON'T THINK THAT ANY 10X SITES USE IT.
 
 2. MAINTENANCE
 2.1 WELL.... AT THIS POINT IN TIME, PROBABLY BILL EARL. HOWEVER, 
 BOTH MYSELF AND DARYLE STILL DO A LOT OF WORK ON IT, IF THE OCCASION SHOULD WARRANT
 IT. IT'S IS HARD TO REALLY BE ABLE TO POINT A FINGER AT ANYBODY AND
 SAY THAT THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE.
 2.2 BUGS  ARE FIXED BECAUSE THEY ARE BUGS. THIS HOWEVER DOES NOT APPLY TO
 THE COMPILER. COMPILER BUGS USUALLY GET FIXED, BUT WE MAKE NO PROMISES
 OF COURSE (I WILL BE DOING SOME WORK ON IT IN THE NEXT FEW WEEKS I HOPE).
 2.3 I AM NOT SURE THAT ANYONE OF REASONABLE STANDING EXISTS. HOWEVER,
 I DO FELL COMMITED TO MAINTAINING IT AND SO DOES DARYLE. CERTAINLY
 NONE OF THE FACULTY HERE IS CAPABLE OR RESPONSIBLE FOR MAINTAINING IT. RUSTY MAY
 GOAD US, BUT HE IS LEAVING.
 
 3 EXTENSIONS.
 3.1 WE ARE ALWAYS KICKING AROUND NEW IDEAS. AS THINGS STAND NOW, THERE
 ARE NO DEFINITE PLANS TO EXTEND THE SYSTEM PER SE. HOWEVER, FUTURE EXTENSIONS
 WILL PROBABLY BE OF THE FORM OF PACKAGES OR ASSEMBLY SWITCHES. (I THINK BILL IS WORKING
 ON ADDING SOME STRING FACILITIES). TO HAZARD A GUESS, THIS VERSSN
 WILL PROBABLY BE THE FINAL MAJOR CHANGE (UNLESS SOMEONE GIVES ME TIME TC
 TO FIDDLE WITH IT).
 3.2 HMMMM....UP TILL THE CURRENT TIME, DARYLE AND I
 AGREED ON SOMETHING AND THEN TALKED RUSTY INTO IT.  BUT THE WHOLE THING
 HAS BEEN EXTREMELY LOOSE.
 
 4. PROSPECTS
 4.1 I PERSONALLY DON'T CONSIDER IT AS IT STANDS TO BE A COMPETITOR TO
 INTERLISP. HOWEVER, THE LATTER SEEMS TO BE GETTING A BIT OUT OF HAND.
 4.2 TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE, NO 10X VERSION IS PLANNED. THE IDEAS
 HAS BEEN KICKED AROUND, BUT I DON'T THINK ANYONE PLANS ON IT.
 
 DOES 2.2 REFER TO LISP70?
 AS THINGS STAND NOW, IT LOOKS LIKE I WILL PROBABLY BE
 WORKING AT ISI. I DO NOT LIKE THE IDEAS OF SEEING THE UCI SYSTEM GO 
 UNSUPPORTED, AS IT SEEMS THAT STANFORD LISP HAS BEEN. IT MIGHT BE
 POSSIBLE FOR ME TO DO SOME WORK FOR YOU (AND I WOULD BE INTERESTED),
 BUT I CAN'T REALLY SAY ANYTHING UNTIL AFTER TALKING TO ISI. (I WILL
 SEE THEM MANANA).
 I THINK YOU SHOULD VERY EASILY BE ABLE TO SUPPORT YOUR ARGUMENTS
 RELATING TO UCILSP. THERE WILL CERTAINLY BE A LARGE NUMBER OF SITES
 USING IT. 
 TIME AND ENERGY PERMITTING, I HOPE TO PRODUCE A NEW MANUAL FOR UCILSP
 TO ENCOMPASS THINGS COVERED IN THE STANFORD MANUALS AND THOSE LITTLE THINGS
 THAT ONLY THE BIT PUSHERS AND HACKERS KNOW ABOUT.
 JEFF JACOBS